Post by Rumania on Oct 14, 2004 18:43:34 GMT -5
I still don't think he can afford it, during the race to the seas.
"1870-1914 - The Austro-Italian Naval Race
The most famous of Naval races before 1914 is undoubtedly the Anglo-German race that poisoned relations between those two countries. There were other races taking place however, from the tiny fleets of the South American states to the Great Powers of the Mediterranean. It is this last race which is covered by this article, or rather a part of it.
Virtually all of the European Great Powers had an interest in this area; Russia wished to open up the Dardanelles to her warships, France had her North African colonies, while Italy was keen to acquire some. Britain had the Suez Canal to protect, whilst Austria-Hungary had her long Adriatic coastline for which to cater. In this article I will look at one aspect of this tangled Naval web; the relationship between Austria-Hungary and Italy.
The Kingdom of Italy was a relatively new creation, borne out of the mid nineteenth century wars of unification. Her foreign policy was divided between a desire to recover remaining "Italian" lands held by Austria-Hungary or to pursue an ambitious colonial policy in North Africa. On joining the Dual Alliance in 1881, and thus allying with Austria-Hungary, the Italians signaled a desire to pursue the colonial route. There was always a large section of Italian political opinion which thought that this was a mistake, and recovery of the so-called "Irridenta" ( Unredeemed lands) should be the priority. This always made relations between Vienna and Rome difficult, and undermined any real trust between the two states that could have developed.
The pursuit of a North African colonial policy brought the Italians into confrontation with the French, who saw this as their own sphere of influence and were not keen to see a rival muscling in on their patch. For the Italians this meant that there was always a possibility that they may end up at war with France. A large Naval building program was instituted to counter the threat of the French fleet, and the two states were soon Naval rivals. The problem was that in the 1880`s, battleship development was in a state of transition, and many of the vessels laid down by both France and Italy were obsolete before the decade was out.
And what of Austria-Hungary? Allied to Germany from 1879, and threatened by Russia, Vienna was keen to use the Dual Alliance as a way of turning a potentially hostile Italy into an ally. Thus what became the Triple Alliance was an excellent diplomatic coup for Vienna, and they could concentrate on the Russians. Distrust of Italy was still high; the upstart Kingdom was the old enemy of 1848, 1859 and 1866, and this view of the Italians never lost its sway over Austro-Hungarian politicians or the military.
The Habsburg Navy saw Italy, not Russia as the greatest threat. The crushing victory won by Admiral Tegethoff over the Italian fleet in 1866 had the same mystique for the Habsburg navy as Trafalgar had for the Royal Navy. During the 1880`s, the fleet was run down as Italy became converted from threat to ally; this was probably for the best as Austria-Hungary did not squander scarce resources on floating mastodons as the Italians did. Indeed only two new vessels were launched during the 1880`s, and naval building was allowed to run down.
The 1890`s saw a change in relations and in naval construction. The British had led the way with the launch of Collingwood in 1882; although she was not completed until 1887, she represented the first in a line of ships of broadly similar design. With four big guns, two forward and two aft, she set a basic standard eventually copied by everyone. The Italians took this design up in 1888 with the Re Umberto class, completed in 1893, followed by the Emanuele Filberto class laid down in 1893 and completed in 1902. Meanwhile the beginnings of the Alliance System had started to become clear in Europe with the signing of an Alliance between France and Russia in 1893. Although this seemed to put Italy firmly in the Austro-German camp, her attitude was increasingly ambivalent towards the alliance. Italy had joined to gain a measure of security against France as she pursued her colonial ambitions. Now, as tensions heightened she was facing the prospect of Germany, or worse Austria-Hungary, dragging her into a war that she could well do without.
A similar change in attitude was taking place in Vienna. As Rome distanced herself from her allies, so distrust in Vienna grew, fueled by a military keen to portray Italy as a potential enemy in order to get more money out of the treasury. The Navy in particular led this drive, supported by Archduke Franz-Ferdinand who was to become a very keen supporter of the Navy`s interests. The Emperor and the Parliament were won over and in 1893 Austria-Hungary laid down three vessels. Meant to be coast defense battleships, they soon became mini-battleships displacing 5,500 tons, 4000 tons less than the Italian Emmanuele Filberto, but it was a beginning. Unlike the Italians the Austro-Hungarians were starting from virtual scratch as far as battleship construction was concerned, but over the years they were to develop shipyards and heavy industry to support a growing fleet. By 1914 they could complete a dreadnought battleship in less than 26 months, a pace the Italians never matched.
Throughout the 1900`s the Adriatic became a mirror of the North sea, although on a much smaller scale. The Emmanuele Filberto`s of 1902 were followed by the Regina Margherita`s of 1904 and the Regina Elena`s of 1907. In designing these ships the Italians were blessed with visionary naval architects in the shape of Bernedetto Brin and Vittorio Cuniberti. Both men emphasized speed and firepower over protection, much as Fisher was to do with his battlecruiser designs.
Not to be outdone, Austria-Hungary launched the Habsburgs in 1900 and the Erzherzog Karls in 1903. Austro-Hungarian designers were more constrained by budgets and their vessels tended to be smaller than their Italian counterparts, but generally were more heavily armored . By 1910 the Italians had eleven battleships compared to Austria-Hungary`s nine. "
So over the course of 10 years, Austria could afford nine battleships. During this, like 2-3 month period, he built 30 battleships? And even though he owns Italy, I mean comeon in 10 years Italy and Austria built 20 battleships together, think they can build 30 in 2-3 months? I dun think so.
"1870-1914 - The Austro-Italian Naval Race
The most famous of Naval races before 1914 is undoubtedly the Anglo-German race that poisoned relations between those two countries. There were other races taking place however, from the tiny fleets of the South American states to the Great Powers of the Mediterranean. It is this last race which is covered by this article, or rather a part of it.
Virtually all of the European Great Powers had an interest in this area; Russia wished to open up the Dardanelles to her warships, France had her North African colonies, while Italy was keen to acquire some. Britain had the Suez Canal to protect, whilst Austria-Hungary had her long Adriatic coastline for which to cater. In this article I will look at one aspect of this tangled Naval web; the relationship between Austria-Hungary and Italy.
The Kingdom of Italy was a relatively new creation, borne out of the mid nineteenth century wars of unification. Her foreign policy was divided between a desire to recover remaining "Italian" lands held by Austria-Hungary or to pursue an ambitious colonial policy in North Africa. On joining the Dual Alliance in 1881, and thus allying with Austria-Hungary, the Italians signaled a desire to pursue the colonial route. There was always a large section of Italian political opinion which thought that this was a mistake, and recovery of the so-called "Irridenta" ( Unredeemed lands) should be the priority. This always made relations between Vienna and Rome difficult, and undermined any real trust between the two states that could have developed.
The pursuit of a North African colonial policy brought the Italians into confrontation with the French, who saw this as their own sphere of influence and were not keen to see a rival muscling in on their patch. For the Italians this meant that there was always a possibility that they may end up at war with France. A large Naval building program was instituted to counter the threat of the French fleet, and the two states were soon Naval rivals. The problem was that in the 1880`s, battleship development was in a state of transition, and many of the vessels laid down by both France and Italy were obsolete before the decade was out.
And what of Austria-Hungary? Allied to Germany from 1879, and threatened by Russia, Vienna was keen to use the Dual Alliance as a way of turning a potentially hostile Italy into an ally. Thus what became the Triple Alliance was an excellent diplomatic coup for Vienna, and they could concentrate on the Russians. Distrust of Italy was still high; the upstart Kingdom was the old enemy of 1848, 1859 and 1866, and this view of the Italians never lost its sway over Austro-Hungarian politicians or the military.
The Habsburg Navy saw Italy, not Russia as the greatest threat. The crushing victory won by Admiral Tegethoff over the Italian fleet in 1866 had the same mystique for the Habsburg navy as Trafalgar had for the Royal Navy. During the 1880`s, the fleet was run down as Italy became converted from threat to ally; this was probably for the best as Austria-Hungary did not squander scarce resources on floating mastodons as the Italians did. Indeed only two new vessels were launched during the 1880`s, and naval building was allowed to run down.
The 1890`s saw a change in relations and in naval construction. The British had led the way with the launch of Collingwood in 1882; although she was not completed until 1887, she represented the first in a line of ships of broadly similar design. With four big guns, two forward and two aft, she set a basic standard eventually copied by everyone. The Italians took this design up in 1888 with the Re Umberto class, completed in 1893, followed by the Emanuele Filberto class laid down in 1893 and completed in 1902. Meanwhile the beginnings of the Alliance System had started to become clear in Europe with the signing of an Alliance between France and Russia in 1893. Although this seemed to put Italy firmly in the Austro-German camp, her attitude was increasingly ambivalent towards the alliance. Italy had joined to gain a measure of security against France as she pursued her colonial ambitions. Now, as tensions heightened she was facing the prospect of Germany, or worse Austria-Hungary, dragging her into a war that she could well do without.
A similar change in attitude was taking place in Vienna. As Rome distanced herself from her allies, so distrust in Vienna grew, fueled by a military keen to portray Italy as a potential enemy in order to get more money out of the treasury. The Navy in particular led this drive, supported by Archduke Franz-Ferdinand who was to become a very keen supporter of the Navy`s interests. The Emperor and the Parliament were won over and in 1893 Austria-Hungary laid down three vessels. Meant to be coast defense battleships, they soon became mini-battleships displacing 5,500 tons, 4000 tons less than the Italian Emmanuele Filberto, but it was a beginning. Unlike the Italians the Austro-Hungarians were starting from virtual scratch as far as battleship construction was concerned, but over the years they were to develop shipyards and heavy industry to support a growing fleet. By 1914 they could complete a dreadnought battleship in less than 26 months, a pace the Italians never matched.
Throughout the 1900`s the Adriatic became a mirror of the North sea, although on a much smaller scale. The Emmanuele Filberto`s of 1902 were followed by the Regina Margherita`s of 1904 and the Regina Elena`s of 1907. In designing these ships the Italians were blessed with visionary naval architects in the shape of Bernedetto Brin and Vittorio Cuniberti. Both men emphasized speed and firepower over protection, much as Fisher was to do with his battlecruiser designs.
Not to be outdone, Austria-Hungary launched the Habsburgs in 1900 and the Erzherzog Karls in 1903. Austro-Hungarian designers were more constrained by budgets and their vessels tended to be smaller than their Italian counterparts, but generally were more heavily armored . By 1910 the Italians had eleven battleships compared to Austria-Hungary`s nine. "
So over the course of 10 years, Austria could afford nine battleships. During this, like 2-3 month period, he built 30 battleships? And even though he owns Italy, I mean comeon in 10 years Italy and Austria built 20 battleships together, think they can build 30 in 2-3 months? I dun think so.